TWIU Episode 13: The Other Half

Renee Royal-Spencer: So I like to start with something light you know, and I really never write out my questions. I probably should, but I like it to be organic. I like it to be just lead, Holy spirit lead, you know. ⁓ so what do have going on right now that you find interesting in your life that you want to share with the world? What's up warriors? I hope that you are well and I am excited to be back as always. But this episode, am so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so excited. I don't even have the words to describe how excited I am for this episode because Like is there a project? Is there a show? Is there a hobby? Is there a book? we have a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, ⁓ special, special welcome. Welcome Josh! Hey babe. Hello. That's all introduction I get. I already did the dramatic stuff before. Yeah, I did that when you were not here, but I'm still so excited that you see my smile. I'm so excited that you're here. into The Warrior In Us Now I've talked about them. know that they exist and you know that they're there and you know that. But today we finally get to have them on to be officially introduced and welcomed into this platform. And that people get to see that you're You know, they probably been like, is this husband? You've been talking about him since the first episode. Where is he? ⁓ He's there. Thinking I'm made up character in your head. They probably think that, know, ⁓ you know, know, people, they go too far. But yeah, we've definitely been asking some drilling questions and also it's kind of the hot seat to be sitting in. ⁓ But but this supposed to be like a. What is your hope? let's clarify A.N.C.H.O.R.S. is your men's group, right? Your men's ministry. Yes, it's a ministry that we formed at the church. didn't have no real formal men's ministry at the church. So the hope was that we could build fellowship, friendship among fellow brothers of the church, men of faith. Just something that I wanted, you know, like I have friends from my younger days that that aren't the ⁓ maybe a faith, but they are. And that is none other than. husband. I'm so excited that we finally get to have the male perspective. ⁓ tell you when this this when the warrior in us dropped into my spirit, right? ⁓ ⁓ knew that it wasn't just supposed to be about. conversation and you know like you're the other half so you're not in the hot seat babe you know people just they want to know what you got to say okay yeah let's get into it all right practicing faith like how many in the church are who I wanted to closer relationships with so I could see and kind of better myself on my own path. And it was a lot of men that also shared that same thing because we all as men, we all struggle with the day to day with life and just getting that wisdom from older brothers having younger brothers come in that I wish I had the opportunity to have been poured into by the female perspective in this journey. I knew that it had to capture the complete picture. And that is the experience of both us women and our husbands. we have to capture both perspectives in order to for for the warrior in us to come into the fullness of what I believe that the Lord intends for it to be. both perspectives are necessary. And as we are one and ⁓ we continue to merge into one every single day that we are married right. ⁓ And it just wouldn't be if we didn't have ⁓ older men when I was younger but it's just a real great brotherhood that we have. ⁓ It's also something that's really engaged in me. keeps me on track. It keeps me focused. know, these men hold me accountable so I can't go lax-y-daisy with it. I just see a future with that. ⁓ And also no different with this ministry that we have here with The Warrior In Us as possible. know, there may be men in that ministry who may have the same things going on in their life, you know, and just open the door for us to have real conversations. No different than you're doing right here. You know, that's my that's my hope to build stronger, stronger men of faith. I would say stronger black men of faith. But we open to all. the male perspective to come on in. And I look forward to every other husband that will come on and share their perspective and share their experience in it share their journey from their point of view. I'm just excited what the Lord is going to do. And for those who will be blessed, I'm so excited for the glory that God is going to get. No this journey is not exciting. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because everybody needs solid faith. Yeah. I love that. Do you feel it's going in the direction that you desire for it to go? I feel like when you first started something, ⁓ I spent so much time, I spent months just overthinking it, thinking like, what, It's exciting when you know you got that positive pregnancy test I'm sure It's exciting when you get to the pregnancy all the way through and you boom-bam, you know your baby in your arms But ⁓ all of the work leading up to that It sucks. Especially when it doesn't look like how we thought that it would look but what this gonna look like how does it go how does gonna flow ⁓ and then as we got nearer the launch of i was like are they gonna be reset up the people want this is this is something that i'm thinking and I'm excited for the fullness of it all and I hope that you enjoy this episode. Sad to say, like a lot of my planning just went out the window and we're just organically going like people come. And I think the thing that I really do, which Pastor comes to tell me, Elder art comes to tell me, ⁓ all the Elders tell me basically, but they just listen to God. Like they don't they don't get stuck in any plan or path that they pave. And each week we just. Each week, I feel like I just let's get into it. I love the excitement that I see when you are talking about A.N.C.H.O.R.S. But sounds like seems like it's well. ⁓ Yes. And I also ⁓ another thing ⁓ similar to A.N.C.H.O.R.S, I actually, you know, I was helping start up a board previously. I actually had a conversation with of the ⁓ members of that board this weekend, no, this past weekend. He some stuff going on in this person like that kind of derailed that, but we had a good conversation this week that seems like that's gonna be ⁓ engaging So that's just more opportunity for us to help. young brothers just really get a footing, get a foundation. I just, I know when I was young, it was a struggle and dealing with the young people that I deal with not because you know, that's one of things we do love. We do love to engage with the youth. Just guidance and direction is definitely needed. So between A.N.C.H.O.R.S, the board that we're getting started for the New Beginnings Project where we help those kids get trades and try to get them while they're still in middle school to kind of them on a career path. I'm just really excited about the potential we have just for developing a youth. just know it's nothing more exciting to me than to see more young, successful people. Because each day I wake up, I don't know how I got to the point where I was, but I'm blessed. I love that. Let's go to your childhood. Yeah, we're diving in there. Did you have a strong male figure? had male as a child. I didn't have consistent ⁓ strong male figures. didn't have I mean, there's no perfect person, you know, ⁓ but people I had my grandfather who was like My uncle, one thing he taught me was hard work. said, that's the one thing that male figures in my life, they taught me about hard work. But my uncle had his own issues in life and his own journey. But he was a man of faith, but he was also just a hard worker. never seen him not working. Then my mother got married and I had my stepfather who we had a real good relationship with. He was just another person that was just, he taught me about hard work and I would say he taught me how to treat a woman because I seen how he treated my mother but he also messed up in the end with that so can't say you learn everything from him but I had I it was things I gathered from them but even as a youth I didn't have I always ask the question why my brothers went to the street life and I didn't go to the street life. I'm like, we all grew up in the same home, same parents. What makes you make that choice? as a youth, I would try to find other young men that were like on a good path. And I was searching for that, like searching for people that were like a big brother to me that I can see what they're doing, kind of get inspired and maybe learn from their trials. That's what I was seeking more so. ⁓ And just as far as men, like I say, the main thing I know is I just knew men that worked. Yeah, yeah. So that's the main thing you picked up, right? Because that's what you saw, hardworking men, men work, men provide. When you think back to yourself as a younger boy, ⁓ were you realizing that you didn't have the certain things like you didn't, you know, you didn't see a man express emotions well or properly, or, you know, you didn't really see a man that was wrapped up in their faith, ⁓ like immersed in everything. Praise, worship. Did you? I'll I. I knew I didn't see it. also know that during that time that wasn't like, like we break down in levels like you don't see in today's world, you know, we're lot more accepting of men being more expressive, vulnerable. One thing that I noticed when I was younger that I was missing is like when I would have my friends who had their fathers in their life and they go hunting and they go, they farther take them on trips and I come back and I hear about that. I never got that. I even with my stepfather, like he never took me on a fishing trip with him or nothing like that. So I never got to spend quality time and have a male figure in my life that I felt really loved and cherished and wanted to engage with me like that. So that was one thing I noticed I was missing. When it comes to faith, feel like I always have faith. But watching people, I don't feel like I honestly really seen men that really are true in their faith until... are consistent with it, you know, and that was one of the I was happy to know the final church that we found because it wasn't just me going to church on Sunday and I go to church like our churches multiple days a week, not service, but just the work and engagement, you know, we're we're not just going to church, we're serving. I I never seen that. I never was exposed to that. My mother always prayed for that. She always was just even back in Baton Rouge. she had a dream that I would be in a church, serving in a church, being engaged in a church and just the churches and the people I seen back in Baton Rouge, I just never connected with that. I was a person that used to believe that I can worship without being in the house. But the house is a major part of it. I wouldn't want to be on this path without having a home like I do ⁓ It adds to the experience. Now, you said a lot of things. a lot of things and I jumped off track of the question. You said a lot of things and I'm going say I don't even remember what the question was. The question you asked was, was there anything that I noticed I was missing with men? So I touched on the faith part that you asked about, touched on the emotion part. I think the one thing I was going go back to is just. ⁓ emphasizing or not even emphasizing just even addressing their own no i i mean i have my mental health i have an aunt who went through some my aunt was a paralegal having a good career path and somebody drugged her and it affected her mental health ⁓ and i watch her just deteriorate ⁓ I we ⁓ should have. You know, to put her in a place where she can get the help that she needs, you know. ⁓ I watched her go from a striving young woman to being, you know, just a drifter. was homeless. She would come by, you know, they would give her shelter, feed her. Then she just leave and go again. And that's just something as a kid, I never really understood the depths of it. I just always knew whenever she came, she would bring this disgusting But that's just like you say, like that's something that nobody at that time was thinking to push. know, and I think that's how it is. That's how it was for a lot of us. We saw these extremes of mental illness, but we didn't really get to see what it looks like for a day to day person or care for their mental health, because, know, I'm I'm so big, as you know, on mental health, self care. soul care, all that stuff. I never just saw somebody doing day to day or weekly, monthly things to address these things or even talk about these things. You mentioned that... You know, you saw your friends with their fathers and you know, did you say it made you feel a way because you didn't have that? Yes, it did. And it's also the background on my father. My father has been incarcerated most of my life, constantly in and out. ⁓ I don't know if it was at that time I was sad. think more as I get older, I just wish I was further equipped with things that I feel like I'm behind on. I feel like it's like a young man needs their father to teach them some fundamental things that your mother just can't teach you. And I had to learn a lot of things on my own. Thank God for YouTube. I don't know how men would have did this back in the day before. YouTube but it's a lot of things in life that just having a father there to guide you to teach you would have been very critical and I mean that goes back to A.N.C.H.O.R.S and new beginnings like the whole hope is that we can help to instill some things in these young men because a lot of these men that we're probably going to touch don't have a father figuring that life you know ⁓ but having somebody to kind of help you with those things ahead of time you know i have I was in my previous company, was working when we had a new guy start in one of the things that one of my lead technicians when he evaluating was like, yeah, this guy just has no tool experience. Like he don't know nothing about tools. He don't know how to operate them. You know, he's just he's like, needs to really go back to the building blocks. And it's like, that's kind of sad, sad for me because I just I know that person most likely never really had the opportunity to to go work in a garage with his dad and learn simple things that another kid that had a father, they 16, they know that. I I remember back when I was a kid with my stepdad. His son my my stepbrother he knew so much about cars That he would embarrass me he would go out there and he could change the brakes change the order boards like 12 years old And I was like 18 he could just he could tear down a car, you know He can build things because his dad had him with him like he had a relationship with his father I was like I was on the moment so I was like man. I wish I had a day that would have taught me this stuff, you know, yeah, so Wow, you, I mean you just dropping all kind of gems. just, feel like I should be doing a poetry snaps because, I'm moved. So I wonder, did your experience, with not having your father be consistent and not having that consistent father figure, ⁓ did that shape your view of fatherhood and what that might look like for you? And I mean from the perspective of when you were younger. you know, it's men that haven't had a father that still continue to cycle. I can't say that for every man ⁓ that that impact is like the same. ⁓ But I feel like for a lot of men that I see out that's great fathers, you know. A lot of them have had a father and a lot of them didn't have a father and they just want to make sure that they provide for their kids where they didn't have. So yes, when I was a little boy, you know, that was one of the things I thought about, you know, like when I have my family, my wife in my home, you know, I'm going to be there and be a father. I'm going to be there at the dinner table. You know, I'm going to be like. Carl Do you remember when you first had those thoughts? Like when you first had thoughts like that, when you were thinking about what you were gonna be when it was your time. just things I wasn't exposed to and I was like, yeah, I want to make experiences like this with my kids. That would have been nice to share that experience with my father, but I shared it with another man. I want my kids to have experiences with me that they could remember for life. I'm going remember those times with my uncle for the rest of my life. ⁓ younger that age with these thoughts? Like did you know that you were going to be having a wife with your kids? Like it was just, it was a wife and with the kids and not just... Yeah, I wasn't going to have kids and not have a wife with the kids. didn't envision just having kids. I envisioned it being a complete family. And then to the thought about the children, did you, like when you were thinking, this is the kind of that I'm going to be? Was there a resolve like, I'm gonna be a dad for sure someday. It was a resolve that I would be a father. to someone someday. mean, as a kid, yeah, I'm gonna have my own kids, I'm gonna have my kids and be a dad. And as I got older, it's like, whether it's my kids or adopted kids or some way I'm gonna be a father to someone that needs it. When you were coming up, did you ever think about what it takes to make children? What it takes for pregnancy and that kind of stuff? And not in detail, just vaguely. Did that ever cross your mind? I didn't know the... I'll say like, I didn't learn about ovulation until we were married. I didn't know that that was a thing. When you grow up and you watch in, I'd say like I grew up and I watch movies and TV's. I'm ⁓ real receptive, receptive of things. And I seen like it's challenges, but I also grew up in a in a community where people end up getting pregnant. I want trying to get pregnant and just seeing like, wow, that's the easy thing to do. You know, you just slip up and you got a kid on the way. So it's kind of that weird thing where we see on TV. like rare, very rarely that ⁓ it's a chance that this could be a struggle. But then in our communities, we don't see it because a lot of times people that's going through the struggle, won't talk about it. So the only thing we really are exposed to is that majority of I mean, majority of times I've seen people that that end up conceiving it wasn't on purpose. It was by accident. So you think that it's like it's got to be easy. So I'm trying to do it. It should be easier, you know, like all like all these people weren't trying they weren't doing their thing they weren't on the schedule they weren't tracking nothing and they ended up getting pregnant so you would think like ⁓ this is an easy thing to do. Did you ever when you were younger you ever consider the level of difficulty for yourself like because of what I see I'm gonna have no problem ⁓ or something else I'm saying I never thought that I wouldn't have a problem. always was thinking to myself that I see certain things as like, it's a rare chance that you might be. always say, I hope I ain't the one that got that problem. I was like, well, hopefully I won't be me. And I'm just like, like, like I thought that that's so rare that it possibly couldn't happen to me. Like it's crazy when you talk to people nowadays, it's a very common thing. But when you looked at it back as a youth growing up, like that just seemed like, ⁓ that's like a one in a million thing. That's not something to worry about. That's most likely not going to me or nobody I know. I asked that because I don't know for myself for whatever reason I had like this inkling that I was gonna struggle to become a mom not even really knowing what that meant but like it was gonna be hard. I guess my question to you is because I know from our conversation that you knew at a young age that you wanted to be a mother, like you just knew that you wanted kids. you have such a, like you have such a great desire for that. Was that one of the reasons that you thought it was gonna be hard for you just because you wanted it so much you just thought that this might be hard for me just because how much I wanted? No, I don't think I put those two things together. I think I had that little inkling in there and I didn't really give it that much thought because I had that inkling but I was like, nah, you know, it's gonna be like it has been for everybody else I've ever seen, you know, yeah. In your family, you haven't seen anybody that struggled in your family. So I remember, ⁓ I do remember some family members having miscarriages right? But I didn't know that these people were necessarily trying like they were married with their spouse and they were trying and that's what they were trying to do. Like I didn't know any of those details if that was what was going on. But again, it wasn't that I really gave much ⁓ because... Probably because it wasn't my experience, you know? When it's not your experience, know, we as humans, tend to be a bit more distant from it and it's not like... very we're not that concerned about it don't give it that much thought yeah and i think what what i've seen All of my family's when we going into marriage we were married, did you have any expectations for our journey to parenthood? I didn't have any expectations, I was more so just... years went by that I was like okay maybe this is a concern because I just didn't I felt like when the time was right and you were ready he would provide like I don't have to question that like if it didn't happen then it must not be time for it you know when you remember which year you you felt like okay now i'm concerned i say it was probably like year ⁓ going into that frustration period then. talk about that. Talk about what? You said, ⁓ I'm sorry, I cut you off. Where are going? Or I should just keep going. No, but let me know what you mean when you say talk about. You said year four and five, you started to go into a place of frustration. What was the frustration? So. In year four, we got some tests done. And that's when you get the more concrete of like, ⁓ this is going to be a challenge, you know, because I know I got some results that were not like, ⁓ it's impossible. It's just like, it's going to be a challenge. ⁓ I've been doing what I'm supposed to do. I want this this this this toy because it's like, you know, it's gonna be good for me. It might be a toy that's, you know, for the sake of a parent. It's a it's a educational toy. Like I'm gonna learn like, you like this is beneficial for both of us, you know, like I'm kind of going around with it. But I'm trying to paint a picture that is like I wanted to be a father because I wanted to I there for my kids. wanted to pour into my kids like so any of them need. ⁓ And I have a desire this ⁓ and I'm not getting it. you know, start going to temper tantrum child that's just like getting frustrated now. like, okay, so why? Why? know, so I went through a period of anger, you know, and that's just... I passed this test like, are we still going through this? Yeah. If you know, you know, but yeah. So that just for the future age, because you like the test over like what is going on? Like, you know, and it gets to that point and I mean, still still to this day, know, I can't say that. Oh, you know, I'm in. I'm in. Like I don't still say, know, hey, this trial over like, know, it's an ongoing journey, but I will say that during this trial, the Lord has used me, you know. So I have been used for things that, you know, I always say like, if he had gave me that family. before I got to a certain level of maturity, to a certain level of spiritual growth, to a certain level of engagement in my community, where I have done these things, you know. So I'm still in a journey, just waiting for confirmation that it's time for me to focus my time family that we're building. So ⁓ said, know, you felt like okay, test over was was the test in your mind something specific to the journey to parenthood or it was something else that the Lord was calling you to work on. I think it was more so working on myself. ⁓ But I mean, I'm still growing. We're still growing. So I don't know if the test ever going to be over. It's not. There's so many different tests. And then you mentioned a little bit back that you got some results. You want to talk about those? Yeah. We can talk about that. numbers when I was talking about it. But I had a low sperm count, which it wasn't impossible. It just was challenging. really wasn't much that we could do ⁓ regards to ⁓ side to really boost it. Because there was some, the low sperm count was in connection with ⁓ other things ⁓ that caused the low sperm count that couldn't be adjusted. So yeah, that was encouraging to know that it wasn't just like, ⁓ this ain't gonna happen for you. It was just like, you have to, this is gonna be a challenge. There's a confirmation that this will be a challenge, ⁓ but it's possible. When you think about when you were in those times, it was like, why? Can you express what emotions were there? or What do you think was the struggle? like ⁓ for me, my struggle was bitterness here. ⁓ And as crazy as it seem, it's like when you have a history, like when your past, ⁓ has things that contribute to a bitterness, ⁓ to bitterness, then it became much easier for me just to be bitter about it. Like you mentioned anger. remember you said that. ⁓ like suffering. Like, I don't know if any of this relates, but. I mean, I feel like the whole process is just a general form of suffering that you're going through. But I feel like anger, you know, I was angry with God. I was envious with what other people like my friends I see that have kids that just, you know, I have one good friend that's like every year they will have another kid, you know, is definitely envy, anger. but it's just also I mean, shame would be a thing as well. I feel like that's one of the things like I just didn't want to. I don't want people to know what you're going through. So it's also going through all those emotions for trying to step out the door and be the same Josh I was, you know, and just not trying to let that leak out and expose what I'm going through on the inside. So that would be more no time. That's like you're saying suffering because I'm going through something internally. ⁓ I'm trying to show a different side externally, you know, and I think one of the things I wish I would do is that I would show the suffering, because then people won't, you know, when you go talk to people and they ask you questions, like, oh, you know, when you guys having kids and this here, you know, it's gonna be so great, and it's like. Keep that to yourself. Yeah, shut up. I mean, it goes back to just being a man as a man, you want to show that you're strong. You want to show that that. Like, it's hard to be vulnerable and express that side of yourself, that what you're going through, you know, and my whole thing, like even throughout our process, you know, I'm the one that kept telling, you know, showing myself, then that's going to just further confront for you. then it's ⁓ just the pressures, you know, like I don't like the one thing I never want to do is like, like, especially before I went and got myself checked. Like I didn't want you to feel like, ⁓ there's something wrong with you that you can't do this for me ⁓ and let that become a burden inside our marriage. So it's just hard. I appreciate you. Thank ⁓ you. And you hit on some of the main one, I would say, ⁓ that comes up. shame and you mentioned it like you feel it's like shame really comes in and I've heard that so many times from the women that I've talked to and it's so great that you come in and you get to add that you know men are having the same or similar experiences where ⁓ you do experience the shame and you do experience the pain and you are also suffering and you are also just trying to say whatever you can say to just keep it pushing day to day when you're in that space. did when because see now I feel like we're not in the we're not in the trenches right now I don't feel like we're in the trenches and and when I say that I get that from fellow Warrior Lexie you know how she worded it I feel like we're in the part where we're trying to just thrive in every area ⁓ we're trying to really just let God be God in situation and ⁓ It's not the focus isn't there. It's no trying, like tracking, looking at the app or cervical mucus or anything like that. it's none of that is going on. It's just, honey child, we got a billion things going on. Yeah, ⁓ I was so first I want to go back to the shame thing. I feel like with men and women is just both changes because we're just in a society that just thinks that it's easy. And especially when you get married, it's like, ⁓ you guys about to pop them things out, you know, and you feel ashamed when you have to. You know, I have to explain why we're not. spot. ⁓ So that shame I think yeah I think men women I think we all feel that shame and go through it but I will say like you said as far as we're out the trenches I think I think the Lord has given us so much to occupy our self with you know it's not like We're out the trenches, but we're still in the battle. And because we're ⁓ not. like you say, tracking and monitoring and going through the day to day struggles of it does not mean that it's not still the desire. Does not mean that that's not still the plan. It just means that God gave us other things right now that we can focus on that we can devote ourselves to, to where it's not a consuming part of our life right now, to where it's not the thing that I mean. Can you say that every day you don't think about it though? Nope. think what got me through is just the, I don't have kids, but I got so many kids. I got so many kids in my life that I pour into, you it's, they take a lot out of me at times. I can't sit here and beat myself up if I'm tired. ⁓ So. Tell me. Was there a time when you felt like the journey to parenthood was consuming you? ⁓ yes. Yes, I feel like when you start getting the Ava, Ava, we was buying all these devices. ⁓ scheduling it just was like this is like it was that time that I was like God is wanting this just to happen like what is all this stuff like I don't I don't want to think about this I don't want to plan this like it took a lot of joy out of I feel like people on the path to parenthood, they can have a beautiful, joyous time. This is work. We're prepping for the SAT right now. did not want to... It just took away some enjoyment from that. It just felt consuming. It's like, is it ovulation time? Okay, we need to lock in and get focused. It's just a lot where there's this. Seeing me. When you saw my emotional toll it took on me, did you feel like you had to do something for me? feel like in the beginning it's like I feel like I had to try to do something. I feel like I had to try to jump in and then I feel like if I wasn't like years later I realized that like I really can't do nothing to really make you feel better. And it's just hard because we're married and I want to fix that. I want to be there to bring the resolution, but it's some things that's outside our hands, you know, and it's like, I... And I think as a, like, I guess the question for you is like, when did you realize that I was struggling myself through the process? I would say it took a while. It took years for me to know that this our struggle. in the journey to parenthood was impacting you because honey baby you're a great compartmentalizer and you hide you hide things really well and so you know it wasn't it was years until it was like okay wow this is really impacting him wow he's really hurt too wow i'm not by myself in this darkness in this pain in this suffering because for for a long time a couple years it did seem like you know you had this nonchalant attitude about it like you know It's gonna happen when it's gonna happen and you know and I can't worry about this stuff. That's what it that's what it seems like but when Again years went on there were some there were some moments of conversations that we had and I you let me in and it's like ⁓ wow This is really hard for him ⁓ And I I you know During those times, did you feel like you had an outlet or somebody that you could go to and really give that rawness? No, because I mean... Feel like I mean I answer the question I Didn't feel like I I mean I could have came to you. Yes, I didn't want to put that on I seen your state You thought that you were gonna make me sadder yeah Did you pop? I popped a couple times. here today, do you feel like that was a ⁓ wise choice for you not just share ⁓ your experience with me considering where I was? Did you ever think that our marriage was fruitless? No, I don't think that I feel like I feel this though. Even in the darkest times, you know, I feel this though. ⁓ It ain't meant happen. ⁓ I gotta say that it's always ways that we can be fruitful in our marriage, know, seen people who have done great things that haven't had kids. ⁓ So always say, if this isn't, like, if that isn't for us, that that's not gonna that our marriage isn't fruitful. ⁓ I it just is in the eye of the beholder of how you look at it. And if you look at it as having kids and that making it fruitful, then I don't think I should share that same vision with it. I love that. Now I want to go to like what was the work that you did to get to a place where you really just accept where the circumstances are and that you could journey towards thriving in your life and worry ourselves, stress ourselves, but is that going to bring us any joy, any closeness, any peace? No, it's not. Talking with other people who just like. When you talk to people that have been trying and you hear their stories of their acceptance and their resolution with it, it's beautiful. When you talk to people and who's been trying and you hear that when God answered their prayers, it's just a beautiful story too. And I'm just in my story now that I'm going to be able to help somebody on a journey with. Having things to occupy me is very beneficial. Having my board with A.N.C.H.O.R.S. Coming out of what we've come out of. ⁓ What would you give to what would you say to a husband right now? He and his wife, they're in the they're in the dark. They're the trenches of it all. I'll say. There's there's one thing I didn't touch on, because I didn't like I. I just recently started speaking with a counselor that's been helping me with a lot of my. is either going to be one or two is one that's going to be struggling that's maybe putting it on his wife. Maybe you should not put that on her, that weight and that burden. by that, I mean by blaming or shaming their wife, which I hope is not happening. And then there's some men that's probably someone to me that just don't want to talk about it at all. It's like you say that not speaking about it makes you feel like you're alone in the journey like you're like you're in a battle by yourself. So you definitely want to isolate your wife to your feelings. So it's just you have to you have to be ready for to have a conversation and be open with your with your partner doing that journey because otherwise nobody wants to be alone in the journey. It's already a lonely journey. Well, I will say that again, I appreciate you so very much for your vulnerability, your transparency for saying yes to walking out this journey and then allowing really the world to walk it out with us. ⁓ Well, ⁓ I hope you got something. There was a whole lot to get. ⁓ If you know a husband, if your husband hasn't been tuning in with you. Why don't you just share this episode with them, OK? And share it with anybody who you think it would bless and would be, it would benefit, Share the episode. ⁓ And I want to thank you so, so very much for tuning for listening. I hope you were blessed. I hope you got something. ⁓ And until next time, be well.